la pierre. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. it really is "hardball." "politics nation" starts now. tonight's lead, a eureka moment for the gop. the cat came out of the bag today courtesy of republican senator lindsey graham from south carolina. he said in an interview, quote, any time you challenge the president, president obama, is good politics. good politics? and that's why it's so hard to get things done in washington. republicans have been blocking the president on everything. on gun control. on immigration. on gay marriage. on a fair budget. they've even opposed him on policies they used to support. in the process, the gop has made the choice to hurt real americans. all in the name of so-called

good politics. if he's for it, they're against it. and the president knows it. >> they've said no to just about every idea i've proposed, every policy i've proposed. even ideas they've traditionally agreed with. no, i'm not exaggerating. i mean, we had situations where they would sponsor bills, i'd say okay, and then they'd say, oh, well if you're okay with it we must be against it. happened a bunch of times. it's true. >> yes, it's true. and thanks to senator graham, we know why and from the first day he took office we've been seeing the blocking, the ugly attacks, the smears. and the manufactured crisis. >> some have said it was indelicate of me to suggest that our top political priority over

the next two years should be to deny president obama a second term. >> so you did compromise? >> i -- we found common ground. >> why won't you say -- you're afraid of the word. >> i reject the word. >> the reforms i'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally. >> you lie! >> president obama, quit lying. >> frankly, he's -- he's in over his head as to what to do about this economy. >> he's distorting the truth. he's dividing the country. >> this president and this administration has either been guilty of colossal incompetence or engaged in a coverup. >> this is an in your face nomination by the president. >> i'm afraid that president obama may have this king complex sort of developing. we're going to make sure that it doesn't happen. >> this is a lifestyle that is one of excess. >> i think president obama is the most radical president we've ever seen. >> i think that the congress as a whole may need to say hell no

to barack obama a little bit more. >> this is good politics? really? last i checked, president obama won the election by 5 million votes. and congress's approval rating is at an all-time low. so listen up, republicans. here's a tip from reverend al. stop the senseless attacks. stop the brinksmanship. and maybe that would be good politics. joining me now, richard wolffe and angela rye. thanks to both of you for being here tonight. >> thanks, reverend. >> thank you, rev. >> richard, this is a huge admission from lindsey graham. how has the president done fighting all this nonsense? >> well, it's not been easy. and i honestly think that there are times when he's struggled. because let's face it, they're only in washington, all of them, presidents, senators, members of the house are only there for a temporary period of time. if you waste that time in this kind of politics it may be good politics within the republican

party but it's not good politics if you're an elected official who wants to get stuff done. i think that's been deeply frustrating for this president. i think it's been frustrating for regular voters. that's -- >> that's what i was going to say. it's not good for regular americans. how about that? beyond the politics. >> that's what makes it bad politics in the end. that's why they failed in their number one priority. because it looks like they're just playing politics as opposed to trying to get policy through. >> angela, wen yhen you look at record, i mean, republicans did used to support a lot of things prior to president obama that now they don't support. they backed health insurance mandates. they backed the dream act. infrastructure spending. they had no problem with deficit spending under president bush. and they were for cap and trade. now, all of a sudden, they're against all of that because he's for it. >> yes, rev, they are. and here we are, you know, partially into the 113th congress, fresh off of a congress that was the most

inactive almost in history, and you would think at that point just off of sheer pride and competition, the spirit of competition, you'd want to move some things along. but here we are in 2013 still playing hike and seek, cat and mouse, or any other childhood game, tag, you're it, with lives. the lives of the american people and our economy. and our future competitiveness. at this point, not only can the republicans not afford to do it, the lives that they're impacting can't afford the impact. >> i have to ask you this, angela. you've spent a lot of time on the hill. i think the story here is not what they're doing, it's that lindsey graham actually said it. i mean, for him to actually come out and say it, is he that clumsy or that arrogant? i mean, are you surprised that someone that has been around as long as lindsey graham would be politically naive enough to think the public wouldn't be out raged to hear him say this is good politics? >> well, rev, here's the

problem, right? there are people in the republican party who wholeheartedly support that. there are people who read that this morning and stood up and cheered. you know, so it's not that he's not reaching a certain segment of society. he really is. mitch mcconnell said that he was hoping to make the president a one-term president. you just played a clip earlier with boehner saying he rejects the word compromise. so this is not a concept that's lost upon -- certainly not the republican party here in d.c. inside the beltway, but definitely not some of the right wing far extreme parts of their base. >> richard, you know, when you look at the fact that, you know, let me raise this -- put it this way. media matters. media matters has a pulitzer prize winning -- about the right wing media coverage of president obama compared to how other presidents have been covered. this is what carroll said. i think today is something different. the venom, the absolute venom, whatever we think is really

underneath it all, it is something quite horrible. you realize the depth of the anti-obama feeling. >> right. and this is someone who wrote about the civil rights era. you know, and we all know how hot passions were in that period. you know, let's just -- even if we don't go back that far, let's look at president bush, right? because republicans listening to our conversation will say, well, you guys hated president bush. you demonized him. well, right. but what happened to ted kennedy? ted kennedy had this long tradition not just being an incredible liberal senator, but of getting things done. the big domestic achievement for president bush, no child left behind. all the criticism of it, ted kennedy stood with him at the signing. pushed the legislation through. that's how you get things done. >> let me give you the contrast. the republicans have blocked the american jobs act. blocked the dream act. blocked health care for 9/11 first responders act. refused to raise the debt

ceiling twice, in 2011 and 2013. refused deal on automatic budget cuts. tried to block key cabinet apoin toes. held up appointment of 47 judicial nominees. i mean, id be in hardball time if i kept talking about what they blocked. none of that was done with bush if it was something good for the country even though a lot of us were adamantly opposed to bush. people like ted kennedy said we have to work for the good of the american public. >> right. even if you drop the rhetoric about what's good for the american people, they know, republicans know, that this president, just take health care reform which they adamantly opposed. this president was giving them their party proposal back on a plate. that's not rhetoric. this was a republican plan for health care reform. when you talk about entitlement reforms, when they talk about entitlement reforms, this president has put them on the table. they should take a good offer when they see it. that's what's per plplexing abo

the republican strategy. it's all short term. not saying what can we get out of this president that maybe we wouldn't get out of another democrat. or maybe we can't wait for a republican to add to -- say we're just going to take what we can, smash and grab and see what happens in the next election cycle. >> in fact, angela, you know from working the hill and running the congressional black caucus, the president was putting things on the table that many of us were outraged. were angry. >> that's right. >> and no matter what he did, they turned it down till we stopped getting angry at him because they weren't going to take it anyway. i mean, they would have probably weakened him had they accepted some of the things. because many of us were saying, no, don't give them that. it didn't matter what he offered them. they wouldn't take it. >> that's absolutely right. now here we are in a situation, a couple of years later, where their governors are taking it. they're welcoming the help from obama care, right? here's the fact, rev.

the mo ddis operandi republican are using is highly problematic. in 2008 the electorate overwhelmingly responded to change we can believe in because it seemed like this president had exactly what it took to make compromises happen, to ensure that he met people where they were, whether they were republican, democrat or somewhere in between. they are rejecting it hands down. it just doesn't make any sense. it's not good politics. i would ask senator graham to define good politics, but this may not be criminal obstruction of justice, but it certainly is political obstruction and it has to stop. >> richard wolffe and angela rye, thank you for your time tonight. >> thanks, reverend. >> thank you, rev. ahead, o'reilly versus rush. the fight is on. and the big loser may just be the republican party. plus, a wakeup call to washington. why this combat veteran now wants to go back to war. a real face to the budget cuts.

honoring an american hero. the first lady gets emotional talking about jackie robinson's legacy and his widow's fight for equality. >> for us to be able to sit in the same room as rachel robinson -- do you all understand, we are here with rachel robinson. >> big show ahead. stay with us.

have you joined the "politics nation" conversation on facebook yet? we hope you will. today our facebook fans were talking about the first lady's emotional tribute to rachel robinson, widow of the legendary baseball player jackie robinson. carl says rachel robinson is a

class act and a superstar in her own right. standing by her man and effectively managing and promoting his legacy. lauraette says she is so amazing. god bless her. marlon says jackie had to confront the blatant racism of america head on. he is a hero. yes, marlon, he is. coming up, we'll show you what the first lady michelle obama had to say about the robinsons today. it's powerful. first, we want you to join the "politics nation" facebook family. please head over to facebook and search "politics nation" and like us to join the conversation that keeps going long after the show ends.

meet jeff marriet. he's a 35-year-old army reserve and combat veteran. he served in both iraq and afghanistan. the website buzzfeed revealed his story today, and it's sickening. automatic budget cuts meant his paycheck has been slashed by nearly 27%. he was forced to get a job delivering pizzas. and when that wasn't enough, he came up with a new plan. quote, he would like to go back to war. he can't afford a forced pay cut. so he wants to go back to war? how is this happening in america right now? and it's only one of hundreds of stories we're learning about today. the huffington post revealed 100 stories featuring layoffs,

slashed funding and school closings. right now kids are losing their places in head start programs. airport towers are shutting down. medicare patients are being turned away from hospitals. this is crazy. why? because it's politics. republicans wanted these cuts. they fought for them. but they should see what's really happening across the nation. >> nearly 200 kids will be dropped from head start. about 20 different teachers will lose their jobs. >> if you take away from our kids, and we have to decide which kid gets educated, we don't think that's fair. >> control towers have helped to reduce the accident rate significantly over the last five years. >> now since they're getting rid of control towers you're going to see aviation accidents start to climb. the building behind me, last week it was a food pantry that served 1,000 people each month. today it's an empty building. >> the city community school

board is looking at ways to deal with the $300,000 cut in federal funds to their school district following sequestration. as many as 30 staff members could lose their job. military aircraft won't be a part of this year's thunder over louisville. >> economic impact on the city is sun substantial. over the three-day weekend cleveland's economy takes in more than $7 mill kron. military families, budget cuts and possible furloughs only compound the stress of service. >> i never thought i would be sitting on my couch today trying that i have to sit here and fight for my kids' education. >> far away from the washington beltway, this pain is real. washington, are you listening now? joining me now, a amanda turkel, roughington post reporter who co-wrote the report we just mentioned and "washington post" nia malika-henderson. thank you both for your time. >> great to be here. >> first, i want everyone watching to see the impact of these cuts.

we're scrolling the 100 local stories feeling the impact right now on the screen. amanda, great report. what really stood out to you in your research? >> well, just that these are affecting places everywhere around the country. from hawaii to rural alaska to inner cities to the marshall islands. these are everywhere. and everyone is talking about it. you're hearing it in the local paper, on local tv stations. where you're hearing the least about it is right in washington, d.c., where people could actually do something about these cuts. >> and, see, that is the real point that i want people to get. everywhere you go, you can hear it. you can see it. i travel. i see it. people feel it. you get to washington, it's like there's nothing going on. when you're around the beltway, in fact, you thought the research would take a while. but you said, and i'm quoting you, what seemed like a daunting task was completed in hours.

locally the cuts are getting a lot of attention. is this or should this be a wakeup call for washington where it's seemingly not a priority at all? >> in washington, it's treated as sort of a political game. who's winning the sequestration game? who is this going to benefit in the next election season? but around the country, that's not how it's being talked about. it's being talked about, will i have a job tomorrow? will my kid be able to go to head start? will i be able to get the unemployment benefits that i was promised? will my kids be able to go to a school for a five-day week instead of a four-day week as ft. bragg in north carolina is considering. around the country this is very real. the people i talked to were just confused why washington isn't addressing these cuts and why they seem to be the new normal. >> you know, nia malika, you're one of the few washington reporters that don't live in some bubble that understand what's going on. and let me bring this to you. head start programs in indiana is an example. they're actually using random

drawings to decide which low income preschoolers will get kicked out. watch this, nia. >> head start has made a big difference in 4-year-old sage. how he plays with other kids. how he's advanced academically. >> i'm very proud of him. >> but alice just learned her son soon has to stay home. he's being cut from the program as the result of federal budget cuts. >> i was heartbroken. because he loves school. >> earlier this week staff put all the kids' names in a fish bowl. names picked get to stay. the rest have to leave the program. >> what happened? >> his name didn't get picked. >> sage's last day is march 15th. he and 16 other children in columbus will be placed on a waiting list for next year. >> i don't know how i'm going to tell him he's not going back. >> families now losing their child's head start. >> nia malika, we're looking at children. not republicans. not democrats. not conservatives. not liberals.

children. and a mother standing there with tears in her eyes relieved that he wasn't picked this time. how do we do this to children, nia malika? >> you know, i think one of the things we're going to see happen this week is that senators in congress votes are back in their home districts. they are likely going to see these local reports on their local news stations and in their local papers and likely here from folks who are struggling with a lot of these cuts that have trickled down over these last weeks. that was -- that was the point. the president came out initially. some might say maybe he overhyped what the effects would be. 750,000 jobs being cut in all of these furloughs. now we are finally seeing the effects and their real world impacts. people are experiencing across the country. so perhaps this will be a real week and a real opportunity for senators and congressmen to hear from folks back home. perhaps they'll come back to washington and try to reverse some of these cuts. >> you know, amanda, it's real

people that you talk to that we hope will impact because of your report and others like this lady we just showed that was talking about how she's going to have to explain to her son that he can't go back. i said he was. his name was not picked, so he can't go back into head start. when you look at jeff maryak who we mentioned, the veteran that we mentioned in our intro, here's what he had to say about his situation. i'm quoting him now. it's a kick in the teeth. i'm 40 years old and after working, what, 14 hours, i'm mopping the bathroom in the back of a papa john's. and my car smells like failure. he served in iraq. he served in afghanistan, bosnia and egypt. won a bronze star in baghdad. and this is what he has to come to. amanda, this is not right. >> well, i mean, we hear a lot of republican politicians say

that everyone has to tighten their belt a little bit because this a time of tough economic uncertainty. but these are already people who have tightened their belt. people who have gone to war. people who already aren't making much which is why they need a little bit of help from the federal government, whether it's through head start or through food pantries. these people already don't have much to give up. when you're cutting their pay, when you're furloughing them for several weeks, or when they're completely losing their job, that social safety net that the country -- has been so essential to the country is now gone. >> you know, the cuts don't affect the lawmakers' salaries, nia-malika. >> that's right. >> they haven't touched their salaries. the quote is they had to reduce office budgets and some members have said they'd have to lay off staff. but lawmakers themselves won't take a pay cut because member pay is completely exempted from the sequester. so while they're eating a hot fudge sundae, they're putting

the rest of us on a diet. >> there was some debate about whether or not they should take a pay cut. obviously, that didn't happen. so they are in some ways not affected by this in the way that most people are. and one of the things i think you're going to see in a lot of these states is they're going to get their unemployment numbers back. you know, in the next couple of weeks. they're going to see a real impact. the less money that people have in their pockets, the less money they have to spend. we have now a very fragile recovery going on in this country. when you suck that much money out of the economy, it does real damage. republicans, they claim that they wanted this to happen while acknowledging the real pain it would cause. so it'll be interesting to see if going forward if republicans and democrats can work something out around these cuts as people start to face real problems going into the summer months, especially. >> as you said, try to work something out. let us not forget, the president

offered a balanced approach to avoid this. and republicans said no. they didn't want any kind of approach, balanced or, in my opinion, some of it was over the line in their favor. department want to do it. amanda turkel and nia-malika henderson, thank you both for your time. >> thank you. >> thank you. ahead, a war has erupted. it's bill o'reilly against rush limbaugh. and it's revealing what's really going on in the republican party. a massive oil spill floods one residential neighborhood. you will not believe what a fox contributor is saying. stay with us. the american dream is of a better future,

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if republicans had their way, private companies would run just about everything in the country. and i mean everything. >> however, you're not going to say that it would be appropriate for, say, exxon mobil to sponsor yellowstone national park. >> well, why not? >> sure. why not? just have an oil company sponsor one of our nation's most beautiful national parks. listen, i can tell you when someone's joking around. and that's clearly what fox contributor monica crowley was doing there. right? >> why not?

now, there are certain things -- >> yellowstone? come on, come on, answer the question. yellowstone brought to you by exxon mobil. >> where in the constitution does it say federal government has to pay for x, y and z? >> yeah. why not? sounds like a great idea. except there's this. >> the smell is unbelievable. i mean, look. incredible. and that is oil. >> yep. that is oil. that is oil that spilled from an exxon pipeline in arkansas just this week. the company says it's already removed at least 12,000 barrels of oil and water from the arkansas spill. it's not a scene we'd like to see repeated anywhere. much less in a national park. but back to my pal at fox. she'd have no problem with an exxon sign going up in yell

yellowstone. she doesn't think it's worth it for the federal government to protect national treasures like old faithful. and she wouldn't mind seeing this kind of park ranger? do our friends on the right think any corporate sponsorships would go too far? >> free market solves everything, stewart. >> meat inspections brought to you by the makers of spam. >> well, that may be a bit too far. >> glad to know they draw the line somewhere. but did they think we wouldn't point out the problem with their slick logic? nice try. but we got you. i'm the world's worst cleaning lady.

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visit thenewny.com the right is at war. the tea party against the establishment. karl rove taking on sarah palin. but the biggest fight right now in the party is between its two biggest media stars. bill o'reilly and rush limbaugh. and their feud shows just how divided the gop is on issue

after issue. they're not on the same page. it's the case on gay marriage. >> the compelling argument is on the side of homosexuals. >> mm-hmm. >> that's where the compelling argument is. we're americans. we just want to be treated like everybody else. and the other side hasn't been able to do anything but thump the bible. >> you were -- you were sort of marginalized on the factor as not having a compelling argument and just being a bunch of bible thumpers. >> wow. seems like limbaugh took o'reilly's comments personally. it's the same thing on gun control. >> there has to be some kind of middle ground. does anybody need an ar-15? do we need that? >> it is a compelling argument. right, mr. limbaugh? >> blaming guns for murder is like blaming forks for obesity.

>> huh? well, maybe they'll be on the same page when it comes to immigration. >> there's got to be some kind of policy that's fair and doesn't punish innocent people whose parents dragged them here or something like that. >> he's not exactly an immigration advocate, but it's sure a lot more open minded than this guy. >> has the cdc ever published a story about the dangers of catching diseases when you sleep with illegal aliens? some people would say we're already under attack by aliens. not space aliens, but illegal aliens. >> on issue after issue, these two are at odds. but their feud is just another example of a party whose message is all over the place. joining me now, krystal ball and abbie huntsman. thank you both for being on the show. >> thanks for having us, reverend. >> krystal, there's a serious point here.

this split is part of the civil war going on in the gop right now. do you agree? >> i absolutely agree. i think o'reilly and limbaugh are interesting proxies for the debate at large going on with the republican party. and for limbaugh it's no surprise that he's sort of trying to hold on to those old positions. not only does he, as he always does, see his market opportunity, this is his niche, this is who he needs to play to, but in large part when the republican party is talking about a rebranding, they are talking about rebranding themselves away from thinkers like rush limbaugh. i mean, he has been mentioned specifically in some instances, particularly the kind of offensive language that he's used towards women. so, of course, he is not on board with any sort of republican party rebranding. because that erodes his power that he's held for decades now. >> abby, you know this crowd pretty well. the daily beast wrote about this particular split in the party, rush and o'reilly.

the article says limbaugh and o'reilly both see themselves as four star generals in the american culture war. the difference is that limbaugh launches kamikaze missions. o'reilly never yells charge unless he has the infantry masked on his side. is that an accurate description to you? >> that's a pretty accurate description. kr krystal, you bring up a good point. rush limbaugh has no reason to change his tune. he's on a 4$400 million contrac. who even knows what rush limbaugh thinks at the end of the day. it's all business for the guy. even if he recognized the party does need to evolve, he's not going to change his tune. he doesn't have a reason to. he's making the big bucks at the end of the day. o'reilly, he's an intellectual. he has his harvard masters degree. this is a guy that really, i would argue he is a libertarian more than anything else.

and actually that's -- he represents the sweet spot of where the republican party needs to be ultimately to actually be competitive again. >> but whether or not limbaugh is an entertainer or o'reilly is whatever, the fact is that they impact a lot of the republican voters. and, therefore, help guide the party. doesn't matter if they are sincere. they're playing to people that sincerely are affected by them and do what really they inspire and incite them to do, krystal. i mean, time and again, folks like limbaugh argue that the party doesn't need change, for example. listen to this. >> the republicans are just totally bamboozled right now. and they are entirely lacking in confidence, which is what happens to every political party after an election in which they think they got shellacked. they think they got landslided,

and they didn't. the republican party lost because it's not conservative. >> they think they got shellacked. 5 million votes not a shellac. it's just something they thought. it's illusions. bill o'reilly proved that some in the ring wing echo chamber just can't handle the truth. krystal? >> that's absolutely right. for limbaugh, a couple of things. going back to his whole piece of -- as being an entertainer, says something particularly obnoxious and people go after him. the truth is he wields a lot of power in the party. >> 15 million listeners a week. this is the reality of it. >> people believe even if he isn't sincere, he sees himself as a showman, who knows how he sees himself. his listeners believe he is telling them the truth. no, he doesn't think the party needs to change. frankly he doesn't care about the party. he cares about himself. >> i think he's actually in a way you could argue he wants the

party to lose because that's when he gets the biggest following. when he actually has material to use. >> right. >> let me ask you this, abby, your father talked about there's a thin line between the right wing media and the gop primary process after the election. he said, i'm quoting him here, i look down the debate stage and half of them were probably on fox contracts at one point in their career. you do that, you write some books, you go out and you sell some more. you get a radio gig or tv gig out of it or something. and it's like you say to yourself, the barriers of entry to this game are pretty damn low. i'm quoting your father. >> he's a good man, my father. and not too far off from what we've all witnessed, though. but you have to give o'reilly a bit of credit here. because we've seen him stand up for -- that's why i call him an independent thinker. he's standing up for what he thinks is right, where he thinks the party needs to go. as my dad said, that was lacking

i think in the last election. >> you have to say, chrkrystal, that o'reilly has evolved. i don't know if he's all that abby says. but when you look at what he says now about gay marriage and -- and what i played earlier, and the fact of what he used to say, he used to claim that gay marriage would lead to plural marriages. so people m to people marrying goats or ducks or turtles or dolphins. he even argued it would cause the abolition of marriage. so he's come a long way. >> yeah. i think he's interesting as a weather va weathervane. he's not leading the charge on these issues. he's following where public opinion has gone. he is following behind the curve so as not to fall behind himself. >> but he's a businessman as well. he knows that he has to do that. >> he's a politician in a way. he's testing -- testing the breeze and seeing where he

should be on any given day. i think that's where his evolution comes from. >> senator mark kirk came out today, second republican, come out to back gay marriage. now it's 50 senators that's backing gay marriage. why aren't some of the talkers evolving on this issue like bill o'reilly seems to be evolving? >> we talk about this a lot, reverend, on your show. rush limbaugh, for example, he represents the rele jous right. the religious right, no matter how much the country evolves on gay marriage, we're seeing more of the country's evolving it seems every day, they're not going to budge. because it's really difficult to separate your religious views with your political views. to say you go to church on sunday and say we don't believe in gay marriage. how can i actually say that i support gay marriage politically? it's a really hard thing to separate. the party right now we're seeing is struggling with that right now. >> going to church on sunday, i go to church and preach on sundays. that does not mean i think the church ought to run the state. >> it goes back to separation of church and state.

>> i think they don't get the message american people sent in the last election. i'm going to have to leave it there. krystal ball and abby huntsman, thanks for your time. don't forget catch chris l on "the cycle" weekdays at 3:00 p.m. right here on msnbc. news today on the gop's outreach for minority voters. is it for real? first lady michelle obama honors the american hero known as jackie robinson who changed the country forever. she's getting emotional about jackie robinson's enduring legacy. stay with us. lindsey! i just discovered these new triscuit are baked with brown rice and sweet potato! triscuit has a new snack? no way. way. and the worst part is they're delicious. mmm, you're right. maybe we should give other new things a chance. no way. way. [ male announcer ] we've taken 100% whole grain brown rice and wheat, delicious sweet potato, and savory red bean... and woven them into something unexpected.

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the republican party has a problem with black voters. only 6% of african-americans voted republican in 2012 in the presidential election. elections have consequences. so republican party chair reince priebus has a plan to make a change. he's spending $10 million to outreach to blacks, hispanics and asians. the 24-year-old son of fox news contributor -- of a fox news contributor has been hired as a deputy press secretary.

his job includes reaching out to african-americans and young people. it's all on the heels of a nationwide listening tour of african-american communities where priebus traveled the country asking black republicans how to diversify the party. on his final stop, he went to the christian cultural center in brooklyn. largest congregation in the city of new york. and he spoke about his plan. >> today's about listening. today's a start. i'm not coming here with all the answers. but i am coming here with an open heart or an open mind. i also think we've got a marketing problem as a party that we need to address as well. we can't be totally obsessed with math and arithmetic. that we have to -- we have to go for people's hearts. only time will tell if this is just talk. but all i can tell you is what's

in my heart and what our desire is as a party. >> open hearts, open minds, we'll see if it's real. joining me now is reverend a.r. bernard, founder and pastor of brooklyn's christian cultural center where the rnc chairman recently visited. reverend bernard, first of all, thank you for your time. >> my pleasure. >> now, it seems that you and others feel this is a sincere and real effort. >> well, i can say that having met and spoken with reince priebus, that he's sincere. ed cox, the state chairman, i think there's great sincerity there. like you said, it's going to take time. that may not translate into washington. and the leaders in the republican party. i don't know. and change is not an event. it's a process. and we're not going to know whether this is effective immediately. >> why do you think that most blacks have rejected the republican party in the first place, and are they willing to address those concerns?

>> well, let me say that both parties, democrats and republicans, have a checkered past when it comes to -- >> all right. >> -- dealing with issues of african-americans. >> all right. >> all right? but there were key shifts that took place where blacks left the republican party and went to the democrats. and then there were issues within the democratic party. i think the republican party has to think more than just rebranding. it has to rethink its message and its policies. you take, for instance, the fact that there's a changing demographic in the united states. people are less and less rural and more and more suburban and urban. which means that they are in concentrated areas where government plays a greater role in terms of services and taxation experience. republican party has to understand that that's an opportunity to bring the message of lower taxes to individuals who are going to experience high tax situations. >> but what about tax -- what

about the fact that when you talk about lower taxes, you can't lower it on the very wealthy and have those that are in the middle class and poor pay such a high her sen taj. the imbalance just isn't fair. >> well, you're talking to someone who believes in fairness across the boards. now, i don't know if that means a different tax structure for those who are wealthy compared to those who are middle class and lower. but i think the playing field has to be level and fair. >> when you look at the rnc outreach support, the recommendations for outreach to african-americans include hire african-american communication directors, engage historically black colleges and universities, reach out to the naacp and other black organizations, hire and promote more african mesh staffers, recruit african-american candidates. but they really don't say anything about the policies you mentioned. >> that's the issue. they have to rethink the message and the policies. you take immigration and what took place with george bush. bush tried to pass a

comprehensive immigration reform. it was known as the mccain/kennedy bill. democrats were for it. they were supporting it. but the republican party went against it and it died. ever since then, latino voters have fallen away from the republican party in significant numbers. they have to rethink that. >> now, you spent time meeting with the rnc chair, priebus. what are your impressions? i mean, tell us why and what you think he is really doing. what is this really all about? >> i think he's sincere in listening. but i don't know if that's going to translate into the kind of action that can be measurable immediately. i mean, you're talking about spending $10 million. that's not a lot of money when you're considering the need for a long-term strategy to deal with the issue of the relationship between african-americans and the republican party. it's going to take more than that. >> there's a lot of debate, and you have agreed you're going to appear at our national action convention this weekend and you'll debate some of the issues.

i thank you for being here tonight. i tell people you're the only one that i know that could have reince priebus and me at your church within a 24 hour period. you are very open about your political situation. but we have always respected each other. a lot to debate. we're going to see where it goes. >> i think that's what it's about. boehner said he doesn't like the word compromise. let's call it negotiation. whatever you want to call it let's sit at the table and be reasonable and rational. >> reverend a.r. bernard. the first lady gets emotional talking about jackie robinson's enduring legacy. that's next. [ male announcer ] research suggests cell health

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jackie robinson story. on april 15th, 1947, he put on a brooklyn dodgers uniform and broke the color line in america's pastime. today the first lady praised his fight and honored robinson's widow, 90-year-old rachel robinson. >> i want to pay special thanks to a woman that i am totally in awe of. i'm not going to get emotional. i'm going to say that now. because, you know, i can tend to get emotional. we have with us mrs. rachel robinson. >> and the first lady wondered how the robinson family endured all that they faced. >> how did they do it? how did they endure the taunts and the bigotry for all of that time? jackie and rachel robinson's story reminds us how much -- how much hard work it takes to move a